Old Autococker work... [Archive] - Paintball Forum

VagabondStarJXF

04-07-2004, 12:20

Hi everyone,

I've got an old Autococker (a 1996 one or so I'm told) and once I've got it back from the guys at my local PB field I'm gonna start upgrading it.

Is there any particular stuff that anyone can recommend for a guy with a minimal amount of funds?

The thing is old but in good condition. I know nothing about Autocockers so any advice might be handy.

VagabondStarJXF

04-07-2004, 12:33

Just to recap on it's condition.

It was leaking gas everywhere so, upon the advice of many people, I've replaced the front hose kit and all the o rings I could get to. I managed to blow one of the hoses after trying to gas it up :o so I've replaced the hoses twice :mad:

It still leaks gas from somewhere around the asa. :confused: The asa is the only thing I couldn't remove (it has a strange bolt holding it in) so I couldn't check an seals or o rings that may be behind it.

Last month I left it with the guys at my local PB field as they offered to try and fix it for me (Thanks again guys). I ask them every month when I go do the walk on thing and they've been very obliging. Hopefully they'll get it working and I'll have a working Autococker to play with. :D

Any idea where I can get the tool to remove the asa? :confused:

Tom

04-07-2004, 23:29

Here's my 2p, though you wont like it.

Save up and get a new Halfblock race or Eblade. I had an old cocker that I sunk a huge amount of money into - Race, new body, Halo internals pneumatics, air system etc etc etc. It would have cost about half what I spent on it if I'd just bought it in the first place. Having said that, it's an interesting long term project, but don't expect it to be cheap!

VagabondStarJXF

05-07-2004, 01:17

It's going to be a piecemeal project. I'll not be able to afford every part right away and I'll probably be using second hand bits too because it'll be cheaper. (if anyone has any spares that still work you know who to call! :D ) I've already picked up a reg, a spares kit with valve tool and a delrin bolt so far, not to mention a spare set of o rings and a low pressure hose kit.

If it works when I get it back there's not much left to do before I get it up and running. From that point on all I'm going to be doing is customisations and modifications. Any time I get stuck (which will probably be often as I know nothing about Autocockers) I'll do a shout out here and hope that everyone can give lots of help or advice through this thread.

There's also a guy who's really keen to take it off of me so that he can do the long term project thing with it. So I'm not left completely optionless if I decide that it's not worth the effort.

VagabondStarJXF

05-07-2004, 01:19

Oh... I'm not planning on turning it into some psychotic, eBladed, 50bps behemoth. I just want a working marker that looks kinda cool on the field and feels kinda mean in my hands, which is kinda what it is already...

except for the working part! :o :rolleyes: :D

landmindscap

05-07-2004, 22:13

I'd get a swing trigger for it if you can find one. Cheapish and lets you walk the trigger. Not quite as fast as an electro but not far off. As for leaks fill it with air and dunk it in the bath. Make sure you dry it out properly and grease it up afterwards.

VagabondStarJXF

06-07-2004, 16:21

Erm... what's a swing trigger? What does it look like? And where can I find one cheap?

N.B. For everybody's future reference. All I know about is the piddly, little, minor Spyder bits that are kinda generic really so any pics of these bits that you'd recommend would come in helpful :D

VagabondStarJXF

09-07-2004, 23:38

Is the Swing Trigger the same as a Hinge Trigger?

Tom

10-07-2004, 02:03

Yes

VagabondStarJXF

13-07-2004, 11:07

Update on my cocker...

Bad news. The guy fixing it blew the new low pressure hose I fitted so I've another month of waiting before I find out whether it's workable or not.

I might aswell start hoarding as much information as I can get about running and maintaining a cocker.

Does anyone know what the maximum safe pressure is for a cocker?
How do I 'time' it?
What is timing? (it's a phrase I've heard but I don't know what it is)
Can I use CO2 on it or must I use HPA?
Do I absolutely need a reg and bottomline setup or can I just mount the bottle on the front?
How easy is it to fit a hinge trigger?
Is this marker starting to sound like it's more trouble that it's worth?

Tom

13-07-2004, 15:33

Originally posted by VagabondStarJXF
1. Does anyone know what the maximum safe pressure is for a cocker?
2. How do I 'time' it?
3. What is timing? (it's a phrase I've heard but I don't know what it is)
4. Can I use CO2 on it or must I use HPA?
5. Do I absolutely need a reg and bottomline setup or can I just mount the bottle on the front?
6. How easy is it to fit a hinge trigger?
7. Is this marker starting to sound like it's more trouble that it's worth?

1. About 1000 psi. You really will have trouble damaging it by putting a high input pressure into it. It wont run well, but it shouldn't break it (assuming your LPR is ok).

2. See the answer to 3.

3. Timing refers setting the points in the trigger pull where (the marker fires, the bolt comes back, the bolt goes forward). To time your marker, you set the trigger pull length, the hammer lug height and the 3-way rod length. If you don't know what you're doing then either play with it till it works or give it to someone who knows what they're doing.

4. You can use CO2 on a cocker.

5. You can just mount the bottle on the front if you want to.

6. How much do you know about timing cockers?

7. Yes.

VagabondStarJXF

13-07-2004, 18:44

I think I might offer it to that guy if he's still interested in taking it off my hands on the next walk on.

paintordie

13-07-2004, 22:27

Good idea :D or you could use it as a doorstop

VagabondStarJXF

14-07-2004, 02:33

Originally posted by paintordie
Good idea :D or you could use it as a doorstop

hmmmm... would you be willing to pay me £200 for me to use it as a doorstop? Or do you not like cockers?

VagabondStarJXF

25-07-2004, 13:28

Anyway. I've decided that, if I can sell the cocker off, I'm going to build one from absolute scratch.

I want to make a completely custom one that I can say is truly personalised and individual, y'know, get a custom body and build it up from there using all the parts I would've upgraded to right from the start rather than waste money on buying a stock marker then upgrading bits and getting custom work done on it.

I figure it'll still be expensive but it'll be cheaper doing things this way.

Any one got advice on what bits are the best and which to avoid?

VagabondStarJXF

25-07-2004, 13:30

I need to know options for both electro and mechanical as I'm not sure which I'm gonna make.

I also need to know where I can get custom bodies and parts from.

Parksy

25-07-2004, 13:35

Look at the spec of a nexus or evo cocker and copy it. You won't get any better than those :)

Any part made by belsales is top notch for a cocker.

Custom bodies are not really available if you want it to be a genuine cocker. You can buy custom 'copy' bodies though.

VagabondStarJXF

25-07-2004, 17:13

What's the spec of an Evo? or Nexus? or where can I look at the spec (right down to the valve kit)?

Parksy

25-07-2004, 18:11

Specs of both really are....

BODY
Genuine Custom milled WGP body
Removeable feed tube
WGP locking feed tube on the Nexus
P-Block/Short-Bolt Design

BITS
Elemental beavertail

PNEUS
Stainless pump rod
Magnum 44/Nexus Ram (both the same thing)
QEVs (Quick exhaust valves) on the ram
3 way is the e-blade one (assuming the evo has an e-blade)
Either Eclipse or Belsales twister LPR

INTERNALS
Rex dialer kit
Supercharger Valve
Polised 1/4" sear lug
Light hammer spring
Hammer with dual nyloc lug

BOLT
Delrin bolt & pin

Basically the Eclipse markers use Belsales bits but put little E signs on them...

If your going to build one from scratch it is a lot cheaper to buy say the Evolution upgrade kit from Belsales... it includes:

Delrin bolt kit, Supercharger Valve Kit, Rex Kit , 44 Magnum Ram ram, 2x QEV, Titanium Pump rod 2x stickers and Low pressure hosing all for £130 which is a helluva lot cheaper than buying bits seperate :)

VagabondStarJXF

25-07-2004, 18:27

cheers dude :D

Any idea where I can get just the body on its own? I've been looking around and I can't seem to find one seperately. :confused:

I don't mind getting a 3rd party custom body but I'd like to keep my options open. :D

Parksy

25-07-2004, 18:52

You can but 03 WGP bodies here, just the standard ones. About £170 they are which includes the front and back block, body and asa.

Forgot in the spec above as well that you also need an inline reg. Eclipse uses Black magic regs, belsales use those or just the standard wgp inline reg (which are the same as the black magic just don't look as nice.

Plenty of places in the US to have bodys imported from. Like I said though most of them are not official WGP bodies so aren't legally classed as cockers.

AIM do copy bodies that are quite nice. As do fireball mountain, although some of there stuffs a bit strange...

VagabondStarJXF

25-07-2004, 22:10

Originally posted by L1f3
You can but 03 WGP bodies here, just the standard ones.

Where exactly can I get them from? And can I get them annodized any way I choose from the same place?

Cheers dude :)

VagabondStarJXF

11-08-2004, 13:12

Bad news.

My cocker is unable to operate until I get a replacement ram. The front kit seals on my cocker had basically rotted away inside, that's what was causing some major leakage and hose destruction. I was missing a valve spring too.

I managed to replace the seals inside my 3-way and the reg was kindly replaced with Bloody Whisper's spare (Many thanks to you again BW!) but my ram is totally kaput. I'm told that putting the latest hardware wouldn't be worthwhile on such an old marker so if anyone out there has an old working ram they're gonna throw away feel free to throw it my way.

I'll most likely be at Campaign for each walk on and maybe Holmbush every once in a while (depending on funds).

Bloody Whisper

14-08-2004, 11:07

Old (2months old) thrown your way! :D as you already know had all bits replaced recently

Bloody Whisper

14-08-2004, 14:24

ok as requested here is the way the pipes go in the clearest way i can put it hope it helps

ok this is tricky but this is how the pipe work goes on the marker. starting from left to right on the three way

1. with the marker on the floor/table with the barrel on the right and stock on the left

2. the first pipe goes from the three way to the ram end cap (the end closest to barrel)

3. The second pipe in the middle of the three way goes to the end of the sledge hammer (below the ram)

4. the third pipe goes from the three way to the end of the ram body

Hope this was what you were after.:D

VagabondStarJXF

14-08-2004, 22:46

After months of worrying and tinkering (more of the former if I'm honest :D ) and after another £150ish (not including all shipping costs) invested in bits and pieces my old Autococker is now WORKING!!!!!! :D :D :D

All it took was 3 techies, 2 spares kits, 3 low pressure hose kits, 1 'special order' replacement o rings kit, 1 very good friend to upgrade his marker and supply me with the left overs (Thanks BW!), a little research, a little work and about 5 months of waiting and praying! :rolleyes:

MAJOR Thanks and Praise goes out to the techie who turned up on that one walk on day (8th August) and to Bloody Whisper for supplying me with his nearly new reg and ram and some macro hose parts, not to mention helping me assemble the thing again. All I need to do now is get my CO2 tank filled again and then I can see what this baby can really do. Shame I have to wait until the next walk on to do that though as I've nowhere safe to test fire my markers... :(

I'll post pics once I've got my camera up and running again, otherwise this project is over. All I wanted to do was get it running so that I'd have "a working marker that looks kinda cool on the field and feels kinda mean in my hands" instead of a dead weight that sits on the side gathering dust.

When I've got a regular income again I'll start thinking about building my new Autococker again... ... ... ... ...

Bloody Whisper

15-08-2004, 02:28

Glad i could be of service! just nice to see the thing in action after all these months of us both scouring over it. :D

VagabondStarJXF

17-08-2004, 14:46

Okie dokie! Here's a pic of Sigourney (I decided to name my markers... If John Chrichton can call his weapon Wynona then I can name mine, dammit!).

She's without her pneumatics shround 'coz I is proud of her bits, innit'!

Bloody Whisper

18-08-2004, 00:39

old school and pretty:rolleyes:

VagabondStarJXF

19-08-2004, 15:31

Here's another pic.

VagabondStarJXF

05-09-2004, 23:50

My marker works but doesn't fire too well at all. Went to the target range first thing and it wouldn't even hit the nearest target in front of me.

I made a couple of adjustments and it hit it but only with enough power to bounce off.

I have a feeling it's probably something to do with the timing. Can anyone give any instructions on how to time my cocker? Or give me a link to a detailed instruction/guide?

'Why don't you just send it off to Belsales?' I hear you ask? Well, I don't particularly want to rely on Belsales to fix my marker every time it goes wrong. If I can learn how to fix it then it will be better for me and my marker in the long run. Not to mention I'm determined to know everything I can know about this marker.

Can anyone help me out... again?

Paul

06-09-2004, 11:45

http://www.moodypaintball.com/pages/tech/timing.htm

-Paul-

VagabondStarJXF

06-09-2004, 14:07

Thanks for that link dude. Hopefully I'll be able to sort this thing out once and for all! :)

VagabondStarJXF

09-09-2004, 22:35

I know what marker I have now! I know what marker I have now! I know what marker I have now! I know what marker I have now! :D

The guy I bought this marker off of has found the original instruction manual and sent it to me. I have, now be calm, a Bud Orr Sniper II Autococker circa 1992/93! Ain't that just a kick? It also has all the instructions pertinent to this marker that I need to fix the timing, if my caffiene deprived mind is correct that is! :p

As soon as I can get a hold of a decent set of allen keys I'm gonna be able to sort this marker once and for all! (touch wood, kiss rosary beads and keeping fingers crossed! ;) )

*edit*
Got the allen keys and followed the instruction book. It didn't help in the slightest. I'm gonna have to go to Belsales to fix this thing... Damn :mad: And the new beavertail I've got is chrome, too short and didn't come with any screws. :mad: :mad:

*edit*
Went to Belsales yesterday (14 Sept 2004) with BW and many thanks go out to him yet again. I'll explain...
I'd actually timed my marker correctly and it wasn't firing properly. I let the Belsales guys look at it and they couldn't understand what was wrong at first. After careful thinking and much tinkering it was discovered that my old internal workings, though in excellent condition, needed replacing as they weren't built for low pressure but my newer front pneumatics were. BW was upgrading his valve assembly so he let me use his Nightkast's 'old' bits again. Now Sigourney chrono's above 270 and she has a brand new beavertail that's the right length and matte black. She's such a beauty, now more than ever. And so is my marker! :rolleyes: ;) :p :D

Bloody Whisper

17-09-2004, 22:52

it's like a marker transplant or somthing...

Sygorny lives thnks to my Nightkast's internals...

Egor It's ALIVE!!!

(Lightning Flashes and Thunder crashes in background) :D

Rick TEDDER

17-09-2004, 23:40

and yet again vagabondstarjfx shows frankenstein tendencies
the beast may live but will the villagers rise up and destroy his creation

"egor fetch me anozer marker from za paintball graveyard i've blown za hoses again,hurry egor if ve don't get air into zis marker zoon it may never vurk again"

stay tuned folk's for the next installment in the thrilling adventures of vagaabondstarjfx and his trusty egor substitute bloody whisper :D :D :D

Bloody Whisper

18-09-2004, 00:55

:D lol :D

Yes master more hoses fresh from the yard!

VagabondStarJXF

02-10-2004, 22:00

Now I have a

Freak Kit

HO HO HO

Melchior

03-10-2004, 16:22

vagabond, where did you get the allen keys, i need some too.
And did you find ones for all the sizes

VagabondStarJXF

03-10-2004, 18:13

I got them from B&Q. It's a double/value pack of long keys. Costs about £10 if I remember correctly so it's definitely a good (and essential) buy, especially if you've got a 'cocker.

Size Range:
Imperial - 13 keys - 3/8" down to 0.05" (one size below 1/16)
Metric - 9keys - 10mm down to 1.5mm

Hope that helps.

VagabondStarJXF

28-10-2004, 16:16

Fresh Pic!

Sigourney now sports a nice black beavertail and a Stainless Steel Freak Back with a black All American front. She also has the full X-10 Drop Forward with On/Off Degassing ASA (I only just found out it degasses so I'm kinda glad no one bought it off of me) and I put on her T bar Shoulder Stock too.

I didn't really want to use a stock on her but I had 2 sets of screws, Long and Short. I used the short ones on Roxanne so I kinda had no choice but to use the long ones on Sigourney. Anyway, she's an old schooler so it kinda works... and I've put in her Delrin Bolt...

herrreeesjonny

31-10-2004, 16:21

Would you consider puttin a new style swing/hinge trigger on her or do u want to keep her as origoinal as possible??

VagabondStarJXF

31-10-2004, 18:22

I decided to forgo the hinge trigger as I have no intention of firing fast with this marker.

alan phoenix

31-10-2004, 19:13

ive still got a bud orr sniper 1. i see the silencer is the short edition i have the longer one,just take it apart clean the pan scourer stuff what should be inside or replace and will be good as new.

VagabondStarJXF

04-11-2004, 17:21

Okay. So I took it apart and found it was filled with a green scouring pad (the type you could wash your dishes with) like you mentioned. Any recommendations as to what I can repack it with? I know I'm not gonna see it but I'd prefer something a little nicer than a green scouring pad.

FrontManDan

05-12-2004, 21:38

Another green scouring pad?

I was under the impression that scilencers on paintball guns are illegal in the uk.

Im not sure

VagabondStarJXF

05-12-2004, 22:57

They are and it's not. It's a fake suppressor as far as I know. The green scouring pad was starting to put 'spikes' into the path of my paint, y'see. I want something that won't do that or anything similar. A clear barrel means less stuff to go wrong with your shot... not that I'll be using it much seeing as she's got a Freak barrel...

VagabondStarJXF

28-12-2004, 09:02

Sigourney is beautifully restored to deadly working order, resurrected from her nightmarish sleep, so now I guess there's no where else I can go with this marker. I think it's safe to proclaim her as finished.

Onwards to my next project, methinks...

void

28-12-2004, 14:40

whats next then??

VagabondStarJXF

28-12-2004, 15:50

I don't know. The main consideration for the next project is availability of parts. I might go on to another Autococker now that I pretty much know how this one works. On the other hand I might try my hand at a marker I've not touched on before, like an Angel or an Intimidator or something. I'm gonna search around for parts first before I make that sort of decision.

When I start my next project, whatever it might be on, it'll definitely be a complete build from scratch. I want to know each and every part that goes on the marker as I'm building it. Whatever marker it is I'm sure I'll post my progress on the appropriate forum board so that it might help someone else with thier marker's modification or maintainance.

herrreeesjonny

28-12-2004, 15:55

You could do a cocker, using one of the AIM bodies?

VagabondStarJXF

28-12-2004, 16:07

I don't really like the AIM bodies. Perhaps I'll use the FBM lot but I really wanted to use an 'Official' cocker body rather than a 'focker' (as WGP call them) if I were to do another cocker project. It does look like the Autococker would be the first choice for the next project (due to parts availability) but I'd really like to see what's out there before I start thinking of the possibilities.