View Full Version : Preset air systems
The time has come to say good-bye to the C02 and hello to air. But where to start?
Looking around the net and in forums it seems that 1.5 L is a large bottle and therefore more shots out of it. Would this be a good size to get?
Also, the pressure. Other than the amount of shots you can get from it, does it matter what pressure you get? Is there a standard pressure or a more popular pressure to play with? Can all pressures be filled just as easily?
Finally, what would you advise me getting for an Evo Cocker.
Gracias,
-Paul-
Air bottles - 1.1 or 1.5 litre are the standard sizes. You can also get 0.8 and 1.9 litre bottles from some places. I wouldn't bother with a 3k psi air system these days, most places that supply air (ie HPAC) fill to 4k5 psi. So go with that if you are buying new.
You say "if you are buying new". Well with my budget I don't think I can really afford new so it would have to be second hand and not from fat bobs of course, as it is dangerous children!
Would this affect buying a 1.5L 4500 psi preset bundle then?
-Paul-
CardiffGreens
08-07-2004, 22:16
I got the preset 0.8l "bundle" from FatBobs - its a great price what a starter air setup.
Though the only problem I've had is that I've got to dry-fire my marker till the bottle is empty to un-screw it - which is a pain.
Other than that, I'd highly recommend it if you're on a budget (like me!)
How come you have to empty it? :confused:
Doesn't it have a pin valve or simular on the bottle? (air n00b here!)
-Paul-
CardiffGreens
08-07-2004, 22:30
Yeah, but the problem I have is that sometimes instead of the whole thing coming out of my bottom-line, only the bottle unscrews off the reg... Which means I've got to lower the pressure so it's easier to unscrew off safely.. Which is a bit of a pain sometimes...
Maybe I'm just too weak to unscrew it! :D
landmindscap
08-07-2004, 22:40
Yes this is the Third bottle of this type I have found that does this. The only way to safetly remove the bottle is to fire it until it's out of gas then unscrew the Bottle. What's going on. It seems to me like a manufacturing problem what with this happening again.
Is this prob just with the 0.8l bottles?
I'll stay away from these then
-Paul-
It's because of the relative pressure between the input and output stages of the reg and the different thread angles on the input/output ends of the reg. Nothing much you can do about it - all screw-in air regs have this prob to some degree. You can help by putting a little grease on the output end of the reg before you screw it onto the marker.
I have a Fat Bob's preset on my shocker - I find it's easier to screw the reg back out a turn of so then the pin valve closes so you can fire off a few shots to clear it. AFAIK there's nothing you can do about the unscrewing problem. :( Anyone want to invent a system of securing the reg to the bottle?
You could try using an "ON/OFF" adaptor. The 32 degree ones work OK, IF you can get one, or Custom Products do a very nice one. I've got both types :D and can recommend them both.
But doesn't the on/off adaptor fix to the drop forward and not the bottle. So unscrewing it would still pose the same problem would it not?
-Paul-
landmindscap
09-07-2004, 09:46
You just have to be careful. If it happens to do it get it retourqued once you've de gassed it.
I've told them about oiling the thread before putting them on which works wonders but being excitable before playing doesn't help the memory. The On/Off I use to use until I got an Angel Air which doesn't really solve your problem but allows you to remove the sprint line to dump the air if need be. I'm sure you can get dump valves somewhere.
But just always be careful unscrewing Presurised bottles.
Ok...a dump valve? Correct me if im wrong but I understand the succsession as:
Bottle is connected to the Regulator which is connected to a On/Off valve which is connected to the Drop-Forward and Bottom Line which are both connected to the Marker which is connected to you Thigh Bone .... sorry got carried away there.
?
-Paul-
landmindscap
09-07-2004, 09:59
Ok from the back
Bottle>Bottle Pre set Reg(or whatever reg is on the bottle)>Bottomline on Drop Forward>On/Off Valve>Sprint line(other lines are available)>Dump Valve(somewhere)>Marker Reg..etc
landmindscap
09-07-2004, 10:01
See the bit on the bottom left corner, thats the bottom line with On/Off valve attached. The Black bit is the sprint line and the shiny twirly bit is the front Reg on the marker. Didn't have pic of bottle attached.
Ahh I see now (sort of). So whats the difference between a bottomline and a sprint line (i've also see micro line talked about in places as well)?
-Paul-
landmindscap
09-07-2004, 10:10
The bottom line is actually the shiny bit the bottle screw into. You then have a choice between a Marco Line or Sprint line. There might be others I don't know of. The Macro as I see it is a steel braided hose but you need the right fittings. The Sprint is the black on picture and is what most people use. It's a thin plastic tube which can be bent and set with steam but don't overdo the bend as it will be more likely to fail. Mine has never broke but it does happen occasionally and there's a lot of hissing.
If it does go just put your marker down and allow it to vent before replacing whatever went.
http://www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk/acatalog/Ready_to_play_Packages.html
The lines on these bottles are Micro/Macro lines
AHHHH I see now! I see the light!
I always thought the bottome line was the 'macro line'. So its the actual threads that the bottle fits on to? Riiiight.
So a dump valve isn't a must have item then, just an added extra? And is the whole setup hard to fit?
You've been a great help mate!
-Paul-
alan phoenix
09-07-2004, 12:18
ok, things are getting a bit confused here so i'll just clear things up (or confuse you even more.)
a bottom line kit consists of an asa (sometimes called a donkey)
that fits on the bottom of your grip frame. enabling you to fit your bottle to the base of the grip frame.
( in the old days the bottles were fitted to the back of the marker at the top...see old style pump...these were awkward to handle
aim etc. using a bottom line kit enabled the marker to be handled and aimed easier)
99% of all markers today come with bottom lines allready fitted as standard.
a bottom line kit also consists of 2 fittings to connect your hose to the marker/ reg/expansion chamber/ gas through grip. (which ever you have)
and a length of hose.
there are 3 types of hose 1. steel braded ... 1/8 rubber /plastic hose with a steel braded outer protective sheath comes with a std 1/8 thread on each end to screw on standard 1/8 fittings.
2. macro line. plastic 1/8 hose...uses push fit/1/8 thread fittings.
3. microline. 1/16 plastic hose (about the same diameter as a std mouse cable) uses push fit 1/16 to 1/8 thread fittings.
sprint is just the name of the manafacturer/ distributer of micro and macroline hoses and fittings...(hence sprint kit).
hope this clears things up... or does it ???.
I use a CP on/off ASA.
This sounds like it does what you want to do. The bottle screws into the ASA then you turn a screw on the front to push the pin valve on the bottle and allow the gas to flow out of you bottle into the gun.
When you finish playing at the end of the day you unscrew the on/off, fire off a few shots to releive the pressure in the gun and then unscrew the bottle and reg from the gun.
Makes live very simple and you don't risk the bottle unscrewing from the reg:D
ok so would buying the following let me hook up a bottle and start playing? :
Drop
http://www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk/acatalog/flamedropforwardsmall.jpg
On/Off adapter
http://www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk/acatalog/32dropfwdonoffadaptersmall.jpg
Micro Line
http://www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk/acatalog/microlinesmall.jpg
-Paul-
I have a CP pro rail, (bottom right of pic)
http://www.customproducts-az.com/dropforwardsmain.htm
A CP on/off, (second from left, top row)
http://www.customproducts-az.com/asamain.htm
and macroline, with elbos
So similar to what you have, but I would use a rail rather than a drop. Having used drop forwards and standard rails, I find the rail puts the bottle in a much more comfortable position.
Yeh i've heard a lot of people say that rails are better. But I thought the whole point of a drop was to pull the bottle inwards, amke it more compact and therefore more confortable.
I've only ever used drops so please excuse my ignorance on rails!
-Paul-
Drops will put the bottle forward and more underneath the marker. This will make it more compact. However it means that your arm/wrist will have to come over the bottle to get to the trigger, pushing you arm/elbow out.
If you rail it puts the bottle further back, so you arm/wrist will be coming up to the grip past the reg. Allowing you to play tighter.
Also the bottle is level with a rail, whereas with a drop they are generally angled (since they were originally designed for CO2)
Personal preference, but most people that have tried the rail find it more comfortable. I do and swapped straight away:)
I have been offered a 5000psi bottle ... is this any good? By that I mean do places fill 5000psi and is it worth buying....or shall I stick it out and keep looking for a 4500psi one?
-Paul-
....or a 1.1l Angel air bottle with center Flag reg ?? :confused:
-Paul-
alan phoenix
12-07-2004, 14:59
Originally posted by Paul
I have been offered a 5000psi bottle ... is this any good? By that I mean do places fill 5000psi and is it worth buying....or shall I stick it out and keep looking for a 4500psi one?
-Paul-
5000, psi is what pressure the bottle will safely hold not many places will fill to 5000 psi as it used to be illegal in uk to fill to 5000 dunno if it still is ? some places will fill up to 4500 psi some will do only 3ooo psi. it depends on the licence. so 4500 psi into a 5000 psi bottle will be fine.
btw if reg starts unscrewing when trying to take bottle off its usually because the unit has been overtightened when screwing it into your asa to make it seal. best bet is to use an on off asa and pop a rubber bottle oring into it before you screw your bottle on this will seal the bottle without having it overtight, then at end of day. turn bottle off . fire a couple of shots and your bottle will unscrew easilly without your reg unscrewing.
next time you are at strines i will show u on mine.
Is the next Strines on 8th August? I might make it for that one!
It turns out that the 1.5L was a little out of my budgit.
Would a 1.1l Angel air bottle 4500 with center Flag reg for £150 be a good buy (2nd hand of course)?
-Paul-
alan phoenix
12-07-2004, 16:00
Originally posted by Paul
Is the next Strines on 8th August? I might make it for that one!
It turns out that the 1.5L was a little out of my budgit.
Would a 1.1l Angel air bottle 4500 with center Flag reg for £150 be a good buy (2nd hand of course)?
-Paul-
yes 8th
btw an extra 36 quid will get you a i.5 bottle with reg brand new (4500 psi) from fat bobs. or 1.1 with reg 181 aprox brand new.
HSE - UK bottle (good)
DOT - US bottle (bad)
Is this right?
-Paul-
.:afro:.:dan:.
15-07-2004, 17:45
yes
Also, CE = new european bottle standard = good
Does the bottle HAVE to be CE?
-Paul-
.:afro:.:dan:.
16-07-2004, 11:51
no
alan phoenix
16-07-2004, 20:31
c e is best .....latest spec.
hse is good....will most likely be second hand.(check retest date,
it may be sooner than you had hoped)
anything else is a big no no.
Ok what is the difference between these two?:
32 Degrees Bottom Line (Complete) - £29.00
Micro Power Line - £19.99
They are on this page http://www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk/acatalog/Expansion_Chambers__hoses_and_fittings.html
-Paul-
The 32 degrees one is a braided hose and not adjustable in length. Just bolt on.
The micro power line consists of elbows and macroline to connect them. You cut this to length.
Most people use the macroline rather than the braided, but I think its more of a personal preference thing
So why is the 32 degrees one 'complete' and the other not? Or is this just a make of something?
-Paul-
After seeing microline burst twice last sunday im sticking with braided!
The one that is 'complete' is a braided hose with connectors already connected (and not removable) at the ends.
All the 'complete' means in this case is that you just bolt it straight on to the gat
The macroline clips together. Screw in the elbows and then push in the macroline and it attaches. It still has all the parts needed. :D
Ahh right I see. Thats what I wasn't sure about, wether it had all the pieces with it.
Phew, so at last I almost have a working marker :rolleyes:
-Paul-
Oh and how much of the macroline do you get out of interest? As if you have to cut it to length I just wondered if it fails will I have to get another line?...so would it be worth getting 2 of them?
-Paul-
Bloody Whisper
20-07-2004, 19:24
it about 30 cm long could be worth getting a couple though. i have two lenths extra i use as spare.
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