how fast is paintball growing?

[Priest Of Death]

how fast do you people think paintball is growing? do yu think it'll ever become a major sport like football? if so when? plz post n e think about how fast paintball is growing ;)

[Silverjay]

I've just been having exactly this conversation on MSN with Djmatt.

Tournament ball is growing slowly and getting more organised but rec ball is growing slower (as people leave or give up rec ball for tournament).

Sadly, I don't think paintball, as it is currently set up and progressing, will ever be anywhere near as big as football, or any other smaller main stream sport.

What you need for any sport to become really big is to get it a large, fee paying mass audience and for it to be easy and cheap to do.

Audience - only works in close quarters so TV is the way to go, which means everything but Sup Air or open concept fields will not evolve. But which TV station is going to take on paintball without a good chance of large viewing figures? Late night obscure satellite/digital channel - that's who.

Easy to do - as safety features are required, it isn't something you can do easily and certainly in this country with space at a premium, sites are not going to be plentiful, making it more expensive (see next point). In addition, we are always up against the usual minority that do not respect safety and will eventually cause an accident, causing more regulation, causing more expense, age restrictions or possibly equipment bans. It isn't like small boys, jumpers for goalposts...

Cheap - even sponsored players (apartend up paying at least £40 a day to play, or possibly a great deal more (I have heard £100 a day figures :eek: ), not to mention the equipment costs ranging from £100 to £3000+++ depending what you are into. The up shot being that not many people can play regularly when even training costs money. Paint prices are getting better but are still shocking to a beginner.

So, my first 2p. There are loads of other factors that need addressing but I feel these are the big 3.

[landmindscap]

And lets not forget the wonders of bad press. Everytime you mention paintball its either "HUNTING FOR BAMBI" or "BLIND GUY ON BYKER GROVE" frankly I dont know how 12 year olds know the byker grove one but I still hear it mentioned.

It's looking to go big time in the States with a TV deal on the Cards. According to this months PGI big US producer Dick Clark (New Years Eve bloke i think) has just bought the exclusive TV rights to Xball or NPPL I think. for lots of $$$$$$$$$$

Usually where america leads Europe catches up. Eventually. It'll never be huge but maybe there'll be slots of it appearing on Trans World Sport. Anybody told them about the campaign cup. They could televise that.

[Stodp]

I was speaking to Spud from illussion bout this after the PA cup and the whole Byker Grove thing came up AGAIN! We can up with the theory of making a news story by getting Ant and Dec to play paintball, for free if needs be, and get some free lance journalist to cover it and try sell it to the BBC or something... Think they'd probably take the story as it involves 2 celebs, and also we could have some "top flight paintballer" interviewed about how its been damaging to the sport. Probably end up being spud, as he seems to take all the glory ( take the york preds team picture in the newspaper in the tournament thread). Any thoughts on this idea? think it could work?

[Priest Of Death]

i recon its an excellent idea, u recon sum of u guys could pull it off though?

[Stodp]

wouldn't be the players? what we need are some site owners or even the Paintball Association to get interested...

[Djmatt]

the milleniums are the way forward for europe, as the bald one would say "Watch this space":)

[Stodp]

the format isn't that great for spectators? X-ball i'd say is the "next step" as it were. Also i think the pa are onto something with the whole support a team from an area rather than who your mates or family play for?

[Djmatt]

yeh i agree the pa is a great idea

[Priest Of Death]

can we help it along n e though?

[Stodp]

short of expressing loads more interest for another tourament, not really? and if they do have another there needs to be a shed load more teams? The one a couple of weekends ago was a blinder!! but there should have been more teams turn up. if everyone who plays Series 2k OR MM had of turned up it would have gotten off to a great start. More media coverage is also another big aim of the PA... Local press or even better would be the national press, which is where the whole ANT & DEC thing came into it. We need a hook to get the press interested. Once the coverage is there we can bring paintball out of the back dark alley's and into the fore-front of sports, coz come on which would u rather watch, Cricket or painball? For god sake over the last 5 years Chess has had more tv and newspaper coverage!!! And thats a hoot to watch??:p

[Priest Of Death]

hey how bout we invite a few celebs (ant n dec etc.) 2 make a team at 1 of the bigger tournies? then get the newspapers or other publicity involved there?

[Stodp]

coz they will get their asses handed to them in a sling!! They won't enjoy getting whooped (who does?) so won't come again. I still can't believe no-one tried to use the whole Maurice Gibb (BeeGee's for all you younguns) angle. And now we can't with out the use of a heater and some really serious smelling salts.

[Priest Of Death]

yea ok then how about an amateur tournie or a rec day?

[alan phoenix]

I personaly don't think the idea of paintball as a tv spectator sport will be on the cards for a long time.thats not to say i don/t like the idea i think its a great idea but the way its played and the way its pressented to an audience has more things against it than for it.

Ok i'll quantify the last statement by asking do we go for the 5 , 7'or 10 man teams. Or for that matter any number inbetween ?
At the moment all the different organisations & leegues all have a different idea of what it should be. this has got to be sorted & a standard size tam has got to be agreed on.

what type of field & what size of field do we play on.hell hperball sup air ,x ball & speed ball fields are all different sizes & shapes . no 2 are alike. we nead to pick one design of field & stick to that.
we also need to sort out field lay out. At the moment i can go to a tournament either 5 or seven man it doesnt matter which
every field is set out differently.we need one desighn and lay out only.for those who watch or play foot ball cricket rugby or any other grass based stadium sport,it doent matter where you go in the world the fields are set out and marked in exactly and i do mean exactly the same way.you dont go to or whatch a game on the tv and find its a different shape size type ect of field to another one. the only difference you will get is the quality of the plkaying area, be it grass astroturf or whattever.

ok we 'll go the inflatable field route . what shapes and sizes do we use.and more importantly where do we put them.
just take 1 size & shape of bunker,the large stand ups for instance (coke cans).wnere do we place them on the field cos at the moment you can see them on o9ne field say two close together emediately in front of the start/flag station & o0n another field they might be somewhere completely different say in the corners,or on the 25 line somewhere. sorry this aint good enough. theres got to be arule and set out what says bunker a goes on the bunker a spot on the field ,and bunker x goes on the bunker x spot.not hell i think i'll put it where i think its convenient.
remember if we want paintball to be viewed on tv its got to be spectater freindly and not player freindly as it is now....or should i say veiwing audience /spectator freindly. better still a game where all parties are catered for. at the moment that aint what we got.

so how do we cater for the spectators/veiwing audience /.? by making the game more watchable and veiwer freindly.
At the moment i think we can all agree that the game consists of bursts of action interspersed with a lot of innaction. the game has to be more dynamic and fluid with a steady flow throughout.
also any veiwing audience/spectator needs to see all opf the game and all of the players all of the time..
if i was a spectator/veiwer and i was watching a certain player, even if he was in a bunker i would still expect to see him/her playing not look at a patch of grass with a coloured inflatable on it and listen to bang bang sounds coming from the otherside of it where i cant see it. for all i know he/she could be sat on there ass firing there marker straight up in the air or into the ground
I repeat "I CANT SEE THEM"or what they arte doing.
I've switched on the telly?gone to a tournament to watch them & i cant see them ,ive paid good money to see them and i cant.cos there stuck behind a big coloured thingy and i aint got xray eyes.
so what can we do ?one way could be to make all bunkers see through or as near see through as possible.yes the technology is available. Ok alot of the moves and plays we use now would not be possible .we came out of the woods and had to adapt to a whole new way of moving and playing.(tactics etc )lets adapt again this time from a game where you couldnt see your opponents behind there bunkers to a game where you can see them, you just cant hit them. ok this is harder on the player but its what an audience wants. So how do we make the game more fluid & dynamic & not static as it ordinarily would be if the game was played using see through bunkers? and i know see through bunkers tend to make a game static as ive played in tournaments where they've used see through bunkers. by making a time limit one can stay behind a bunkerbefore moving is how.or by making bunkers either active or innactive bunkers.
by this i mean active (a bunker you can sit stand or whatever where you are static or innactive as not moving ) or an innactive bunker (one you have to get away fromand keep moving).
This could be done perhaps by having some form of devise , eg;
a light inside which comes on when its active and goes out when its innactive or visa versa. I'm sure someone can come up with the technology.lets say 30 seconds active and thirty seconds innactive or whattever you set thye time limit one can stay behind a bunker without moving to be.

Ok I havent the time at the moment to go into rules regulations chrono limits etc so i'll post up my views on this thread later.
anyway i hope you enjoy reading my veiws so support me or flame me I dont care .lets have lots of luvverly discussion here.
:confused: :confused: :) :) :D




ps.....God my fingers are tired.

[alan phoenix]

phew ought to do an article for P B U K> or something.
as i said i'll be back later...oh please forgive all spelling mistakes & typing errors as i aint used to be infront of a keyboard for as long as this . ....laters (lol).

[alan phoenix]

Ok weve touched on how the game can be best be veiwed from an audiences point of view, but not what type of game is best for a veiwing audience.(hope you're still with me ?)
For this we've got to go back to basics andask ourselves ,what vare the basic objectives in a game of paintball? Or should i say what is the basic overriding objective?. I hope you all agree that the overriding objective is to getan object or flag to a certaion place (flag station ) within a certain time limit,& to stop your opponents doing the same.(much like most stadium based sports do with a ball.) The big difference is we can influence the games outcome byelliminating members of the opposing team(shooting them out thus giving ourselves numerical advantage . & visa versa of course.that to me is the basic tennant in a game of paintball. ( if its not then ive been doing something wrong for years.) still with me so far ?....

ok the next question is what type of format or game do we go for ?. do we go for a twin flag type game or a centre flag type game?. both types of games are popular though trends seem to dictate one over the other. firsttwin flags was the most popular then it was eclipse4d by the centre flag format ,then back to centre flag again , and now centre flag is again gaining ascendancy. so which one do we choose and why?.
as ive stated earlier the game has to be more dynamic & flowing so its my belief that a centre flag game is the option to go for.
Ok i'll explain why ?. by its nature a twin flag gamecan be played either defensivly or offensivley .the 1st being where a team locks down and makes the opposition come to them. or offensively , where a team takes it to the opposition.
If both teams play an offensive game it tends to be more interesting as well as being more dynamic and flowing .
if one team tends to play an offensive game and the other team tends to play adeffensive game,the game can still be dynamic and flowing but to a lesser extent. but what if you get a game where you have 2 teams who bnoth decide to play a defensive game from the start? the game grinds to a halt & youve got no game at all.with no plays and no movement , and thats no good from a spectator/audience point of view as well as a players point of view. I know ive marshalled games in tournaments where both teams have decided to p0lay a deffensive game from the start. one particular game comes to mind (got to be the worst vgame ive ever marshalled). game on ,both teams run to their primaries then both teams lock down ,each waiting for the other team to make a move.no movement and no firing. six minutes later in a 10 minute game still no movement just a bit of sporradic firing now and again. so me and the other marshalls were running up and down trying to get players to do something,anything cos as far as we were concerned the game had come to a big full stop. ok we got them moving towards the end but by that time the game time limit was nearly over.
its the only game i can ever remember that at the end of the game neither team had scored any points.(might as well have not played). Ok this was in a woodland tourney ,but it still has the potential to happen on a concept /inflatable field.
Now with a centre flag style game bot5h teams have to play more offensively bas well as more aggresively teams only going into defensive mode if theyve lost a significant number of players thus giving the other team numerical as well as positional advantage. so by its verery nature a centre flag game has the potential to be mnore interesting and more dynamic and flo0wing then a twin flag game.
another reason for choosing a centre flag game is its easier for the spectaror /audience to understand, going back to thestadium based scenario or even the court based scenario how many games do you know that start off with one ball in the middle .& how many do you know where there are 2 balls in play at the same time and each team starts off with a ball each ?
I cant think of any ,though they could be something somewhere?.
(Uzbekistanni leg ball or something outlandish :o :confused: )

anyway these are just my views on the matter so everyone feel free to answer ,agree or criticise or whatevver.


please ?....pretty please.,even.?.:)

[Stodp]

Valid points but one flaw in your thinkingabout the whole defensive offensive thing. One of the most popular sports in the world, Football. Picture the scene 1993 with Arsenal.... How offensive were they? Donkey adams? Most boring football games ever!! Yet people still watched it? Whay was that i don't know????

[Tom]

I have to agree with Alan - I never understood why people preferred end flags as opposed to centre flag format. As he says, centre flag promotes much more agressive play and tends to therefore be more watchable.

One other thing that belongs here - at STB Elsham, the final was between Ugly Ducklings and some other team who's name I forget. The game came down to 3 on 2, but the Ducklings dug in because they knew they would win on the body count. My girlfriend pointed out that this made a very boring game, as the two on the other team weren't about to go anywhere, but the Ducklings wouldn't move either because they knew they could just sit tight and win the final. This isn't a problem with normal games (for points as both teams would lose out by not getting a hang), however for games such as semis, finals etc where it's just win or lose, maybe we should have a new format - you can win with a flag hang, otherwise it's a draw, no matter who pulled the flag first or how many bodies are left on either side. This would promote more agressive play during the finals etc, as it would be an all or nothing match.

What do you all think?

Tom

[Djmatt]

X Ball baby

[andy..]

I don't think that paintball will ever be popular on TV in it'spresent form, 2 flags or 1, aggressive or not.

Unfortunately what paintball lacks (and as a sport I think it is quite unique in this) is a focal point.

In every other sport there is a focal point, something that the cameras follow
eg. Football, cricket ball, tennis ball, curling stone, rugby ball, chess piece, table tennis ball, javelin, hammer, discuss, darts, white snooker ball, white pool ball, basket ball, base ball, etc etc etc etc.

Paintball has no focal point whatsoever.

As soon as we crack this problem, paintball on the TV will prosper.

Take an outside look at paintball, which is what the producers of mission paintball (the TV programme) did, remember they were trying to produce something for TV which would interest people.

The attack and defend hut was a focal point, the snap shooting targets that popped up were a focal point, the football that had to be kicked through the goals was a focal point. The only one which didn't have a focal point was the speedball game which didn't really work very well. The speedball game would have been the game most of us would have wanted to play though.

So if and when paintball does become regularly televised, you will probably find that it is neither woodland or supair ball, but some concept that players think is crap but can be watched with interest by spectators, and has not yet even been thought about.

Andy

[Tom]

I smell a money-making opportunity!

[Djmatt]

like i said X BALL:rolleyes:

[alan phoenix]

what do you all think of the transparant bunker and bunker active/innactive idea.?

[landmindscap]

Pretty lights would keep the masses entertained for a while but you'd need klaxons and stuff as well. Did you see that Car Wars stuff a little while ago. They had these bollards you had to ram when they were lit like giant pinball. It was alright for a bit but you soon lost interest after the 3rd round of it.

The only way to get any serial interest in paintball from the masses is to make it easy to understand. Like football but without the offside rule. If anyone has children below 5 get them to do the rules and see where to go from them. Its the only way to make joe shmo and his big couch tune in again and again.

Mind you I think british audiences are a little more intelectual than the americans but then we don't get American Football?:( :o :confused:

[Tom]

Originally posted by alan phoenix
what do you all think of the transparant bunker and bunker active/innactive idea.?

Active / inactive bunkers? Can you explain that - I've not heard the idea. As for transaprent bunkers, might be more watchable, it would be very different to play (I suspect very different = rubbish, but who knows without trying it)

Tom

[alan phoenix]

ok tom by active bunker i mean a bunker you can use to stop and take cover behind/shoot from etc..inactive bunker, a bunker deemed no longer officially in play at that point in the game.
so in its active state you would be able to take shelter/shoot from
a bunker. in its innactive state you cannot use this bunker.

hope that makes sense.

[Tom]

So woh says when a bunker is active and inactive? Sounds an interesting concept.

Tom